Posts by FatFreek 2005

64

Help a lurking dub with doubts

by undercover in

i've been lurking about, checking out some of the evidence against the wtbs.

i am currently inactive but still an approved/baptized member.

i have seen all the 1914/607bce evidence; the blood transfusion quandry evidence; the current child abuse problem evidence and several other things that are damning to the wt doctrines.

FatFreek 2005

Hi 20571pnt428571 and congratulations on your eloquence. You seem to demonstrate, at first blush, that the GB has had the inside scoop on the book of Revelation. Your "legacy of truth", however, lacks a few details about deep Watchtower history -- one that should make you truly blush. Check out the following table -- and it's two accompanying charts.

Just those Beginning dates makes my head swim. To put those into persepective, let's chart those.

Finally, THE GREAT WATCHTOWER CONTRADICTION, while only an 11 minute read, is designed for new ones. Picture yourself, the old-timer, at the door this coming weekend and someone hands you that document. How would you, with all that seasoned knowledge of Watchtower history, respond to the simple question this poses?

Len

5

Yes, Virginia, there is a Faithful and Discreet Slave

by FatFreek 2005 in

"dear editor: i am 8 years old.. "some of my apostate friends say there is no faithful and discreet slave.. "papa says, 'if you see it in the watchtower it's so.'.

"please tell me the truth; is there a faithful and discreet slave.?.

"virginia knorr.. "115 west ninety-fifth street.".

FatFreek 2005

Hi Ziddina,

You're a welcome sight for sore eyes. Thanks.

Len

5

Yes, Virginia, there is a Faithful and Discreet Slave

by FatFreek 2005 in

"dear editor: i am 8 years old.. "some of my apostate friends say there is no faithful and discreet slave.. "papa says, 'if you see it in the watchtower it's so.'.

"please tell me the truth; is there a faithful and discreet slave.?.

"virginia knorr.. "115 west ninety-fifth street.".

FatFreek 2005

Thanks, LG.

And, how they've been both Jekyll and Hyde and Jekyll. They started out as Jekyll (a body or group), turned into Hyde (Russell by himself), then back into Jekyll. Just another one of their many flip-flop-flips. One of their returning to a "previous point of view" -- which they claim does not happen.

Remember what they said? "At times explanations given by Jehovah’s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case." The Watchtower (WT), 1981, 12/1 p. 27

Len

85

New To Studying

by DylanBeam in

jw
friends

hi, i am new to studying with the jw's and would like to know they best way to start.

any suggestions?.

FatFreek 2005

Your statements are curious -- almost contradictory:

Hi, I am new to studying with the JW's and would like to know they best way to start. Any Suggestions?

Then you say:

i have read the beliefs of JWs and attended meetings therefore this is my way to go.

You've had some good suggestions here, and a few nasty ones. I can't help but add this 11 minute reading, but it is for REALLY new ones. You should get one of those Watchtower Library CDs before proceeding because it will quote from some 20 places within Watchtower literature. Keep me honest by checking them out.

THE GREAT WATCHTOWER CONTRADICTION will suggest a single question for you to ask your teacher.

Len

5

Yes, Virginia, there is a Faithful and Discreet Slave

by FatFreek 2005 in

"dear editor: i am 8 years old.. "some of my apostate friends say there is no faithful and discreet slave.. "papa says, 'if you see it in the watchtower it's so.'.

"please tell me the truth; is there a faithful and discreet slave.?.

"virginia knorr.. "115 west ninety-fifth street.".

FatFreek 2005

"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.

"Some of my apostate friends say there is no Faithful and Discreet Slave.

"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE WATCHTOWER it's so.'

"Please tell me the truth; is there a Faithful and Discreet Slave.?

"VIRGINIA KNORR.

"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."

VIRGINIA, your apostate friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of this ungodly internet age. They no longer believe what they read in the pages of our dear Watchtower. They think that nothing can exist which is not laden by facts and proof and evidence. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the bountiful and ever-changing light, which we call NEW – as in New Light.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Faithful and Discreet Slave. It exists as certainly as meetings and field service and conventions exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest potential for life everlasting. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Faithful and Discreet Slave. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in a Faithful and Discreet Slave! You might as well not believe in prohibiting blood transfusions, 1914, and the Overlapping Generations! You might get your papa to hire men to watch all the Memorial celebrations in the entire world to catch more phoney partakers, but what would that prove? We know that they are mostly brain-damaged or mentally deranged. The most real things in the world are those that neither apostates or outsiders can see. Did you ever see demons whispering from your Smurf doll? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the dangers that are unseeable in this wicked system outside the protective walls of your local Kingdom Hall.

You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only blind faith and naïve determination can assure you that the FDS is as real as Jim Jones and Harold Camping. Are they real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Faithful and Discreet Slave? Thank Jehovah it exists and it lives forever within this glorious ivory tower at Watchtower Headquarters. A thousand Overlapping Generations from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand Overlapping Generations from now, our dear Faithful and Discreet Slave will continue to embed the fear of shunning in the hearts of its gullible flock.

Your brothers in faithful service,

Watchtower Bible And Tract Society

25

10 important Facts regarding Jehovah's Witnesses we must not forget

by Terry in

jw
friends

stop and think about these things.

we must not forget them.. if you are a jehovah's witness:.

1.you cannot do enough to demonstrate your merit or value.

FatFreek 2005

Perhaps this fact doesn't belong within this top ten list but Watchtower hates contradictions -- especially flip-flops ("previous points of view") -- yet are guilty of a passel of them.

Case in point, THE GREAT WATCHTOWER CONTRADICTION. Remember what they said? "At times explanations given by Jehovah’s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case." The Watchtower (WT), 1981, 12/1 p. 27

Len

10

The 1260 Days a tenfold kaleidoscope of Watchtower waverings.

by FatFreek 2005 in

the following table illustrates the extent to which watchtower sometimes goes in their interpretation of scriptures.

when i look at that table and the charts that follow, it makes me think of the word kaleidoscope.

i suspect we've all played with such a toy when we were kids.. kaleidoscope -- a constantly changing pattern or sequence of objects or elements.

FatFreek 2005

Hi AnnOMaly,

Thanks for the comp.

No -- I hadn't seen that one, nor have I seen all of the modern references. Since 1993, they all seem to be in agreement, like yours. I realize that 1999 reference (like the 2006 Your Kingdom Ministry) more generalizes the end date (June -- instead of June 21) . However, including those as one more contradiction in this series may kindle somewhat justified criticism from the apologists -- "aren't you splitting hairs?" -- which could soften the impact of an already startling exposé .

A series of 10 doctrinal positions should be more than enough to reveal Watchtower's arbitrary writing decisions, clearly not Spirit-Directed as they like to claim.

Len

7

Researchers -- I Need Zion Watch Tower verification

by FatFreek 2005 in

here's an older zion's watch tower quotation that i'm trying to verify.

take another line of prophecy: we find that the 1260 days, and the 1290 days, and the 1335 days, so particularly set forth in daniel's prophecy, and corroborated in revelation, have had fulfilments, the 1260 days ending in 1799.

" zwt, september, 1898.. that quote is found at http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/documents.

FatFreek 2005

Yes, ScenicViewer, you are so right.

By using the string " Twelve hundred and sixty", I was able to mine an additional 8 hits.

Thanks for that tip.

Len

PS: I note that you quoted a 1927 publication that taught something that current JWs would never believe was printed, " which is another proof that 1799 definitely marks the beginning of “the time of the end”. "

Good find.

7

Researchers -- I Need Zion Watch Tower verification

by FatFreek 2005 in

here's an older zion's watch tower quotation that i'm trying to verify.

take another line of prophecy: we find that the 1260 days, and the 1290 days, and the 1335 days, so particularly set forth in daniel's prophecy, and corroborated in revelation, have had fulfilments, the 1260 days ending in 1799.

" zwt, september, 1898.. that quote is found at http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/documents.

FatFreek 2005

Just in case other researchers are interested, the above site that Blondie pointed me to is searchable via Google site search ability. For example, 1260 site:http://www.ctrussell.us/ placed in the search field gave me the relevant article I was looking for.

Even more exciting, since you're using Google, you may search for multiple terms that may be in the same proximity. For example, if you're searching for articles that may show the early Watch Tower position on resurrection of the ancient Sodomites, enter the following with the search field -- sodom* resurrect* site:http://www.ctrussell.us/

Note the use of the wild card *. Resurrect, resurrects, resurrected, resurrection, etc., will be found by using it. By using Google in this way I found some 54 instances of articles to explore.

Len

7

Researchers -- I Need Zion Watch Tower verification

by FatFreek 2005 in

here's an older zion's watch tower quotation that i'm trying to verify.

take another line of prophecy: we find that the 1260 days, and the 1290 days, and the 1335 days, so particularly set forth in daniel's prophecy, and corroborated in revelation, have had fulfilments, the 1260 days ending in 1799.

" zwt, september, 1898.. that quote is found at http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/documents.

FatFreek 2005

Hi Blondie,

That's all I needed. No, they aren't the page scans that I wanted (where you can see the page as it originally appeared), but it gave me the verification I needed. It confirmed what I had found in that huge one-piece file.

That link from above (http://ia700304.us.archive.org/27/items/WatchtowerLibrary/magazines/w/) must have a glitch. When you get to the September issue there seems to be a big chunk of pages missing. Apparently why I couldn't find my search term.

Thanks my dear friend.

Len